Log: ENGL 5870
3/10/09
Room: Lib 162
Time: 6:00
When speaking, students and professor will be referred to by their first and last initials.
BJB = Brenda Jo Brueggeman
Seating arrangement of room starting with KMV and moving clockwise: FS, MS, AH, NW, KO, JD, MG, MC.
- Before the beginning of class there was a conversation about budget cuts.
- KMV poses question of who logged last week.
o no one logged last week
- KMV reminds class to check calendar and make sure you know when you log.
- KMV reviewed last weeks hours.
Ruth Ray was discussed
Teacher-research
Great Valley writing project
KMV: “Does anyone remember anything else from last week?”
JD: “UC-Merced is hiring composition teachers.”
KMV acknowledges this and advises class to look into possible positions
KMV: “Is there anything further to discuss from Ruth Ray?” No one replies so FS begins discussion about BJB.
- FS begins by outlining her discussion plans
- FS talks about the background of BJB
- FS mentions that she liked KO’s commentary
FS: “What does BJB mean by ethnography is a rhetorical activity?”
JD: “I think she means it is impossible to be an objective observer.” He goes on to explain what he means
KMV explains that what BJB is describing is “constructing the account” as more of a rhetorical activity.
AH mentioned that it mattered who BJB’s audience was.
FS: “Do you think that ethnography as a rhetorical activity is controversial?”
KMV explains that for some it may be controversial, but not for KMV or for BJB.
FS passes around a picture of Malinowski from a blogger. The picture showed a white man sitting between a few native men. She explains the situation that he wrote and studied in. She then passed around a picture of Gallaudet students who were signing something. FS then described the background of BJB.
- BJB teaches at OSU
- FS: “She is very well respected.”
FS: “What does it mean to be a participant-observer?”
MS: “You get to know the subject much better.”
NW explains the balance between the hyphen and the zipper.
MG questions how can the observer be objective and balance the role between the participant and observer.
- A discussion about this in relation to BJB ensues –
KMV: “Is liking your students a problem?”
JD explains story of how he got interested in ethnography. It was a story about Jill Stein and her study of rock bands. JD said she was dating one of the bass players for Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers.
FS describes going native
JD answers FS that that is what the Heart of Darkness and Apocalypse Now is about.
KO explains that there is a difference between liking and participating.
KMV explains that in the US teachers are supposed to keep a distance, but “in China teachers are supposed to love their students and act like their parents.”
JD explains that he can reflect back on himself and be objective, so you should be able to do that with other people as well.
FS & JD discuss ethical and legal ramifications of showing participants the work you do. Questions arose.
- How does that affect the study?
- Can the participant understand it?
- Do you have an obligation to show it?
KMV explains that if you do show it to them then it should be worked into the process, and then they become collaborators.
MC explains that as he is reading more and more about rhetoric he has come to the conclusion that, “I don’t know crap about rhetoric.” Explains that BJB is internalizing the dialogue.
KMV explains the difference between “getting involved” and not getting involved with the participants.
JD explains that the observer has to care about the people you are observing.
KMV explains that most often you have to care somewhat about the people you study or you wouldn’t be studying them.
MS explains that it is hard to remove yourself from the study.
KMV explains that there are other kinds of situations where you put yourself in positions or “get involved.”
MG describes how lawyers deal with “getting involved” everyday.
- discussion begins to dissipate –
FS: “How would she be different working the hyphen? Did anybody have any thoughts on that?”
Pause in discussion
KMV answers and describes the role of the colonizer and how this relates to both teaching English and ethnography.
MC talks about “riding the fence” between enlightenment and naiety.
KMV talked about how deaf is culture and how the colonizing role works in teaching deaf students English.
MC talked about the difference in observing different types of classes: college to elementary.
MG asks Mike if the differences he observed and felt were a consequence of power structures.
MC agrees that it probably was
FS talks about play a role and the difficulties of playing a role.
- Question arose as to why students were hostile toward BJB –
KMV explains that depending on a few factors like the way her study was framed and the way the teachers were introduced to it could have caused the hostility. They can feel that the ethnographer is an outsider and question their motives. Plus some teachers don’t like being watched.
FS continues discussion by questioning the title BJB used. “What do you guys think she meant by still-life?”
AH: “From a literal sense still life means one moment in time.”
FS agrees and explains that ethnographic research is just a picture of what is going on.
KMV explains some how some of this relates to feminist theory and Donna Haraway. BJB is revealing telling us very clearly that she is not.
FS: “One more question.” Asks us if this is useful academically
AH, JD, KO, MS all say yes
KMV explains that BJB wrote this reflectively from a position of relative success.
- a discussion ensues about what sort of position BJB was in when she wrote this article –
MS: “I was real uncomfortable with the deceit in the beginning.”
AH explains that BJB says that some guy says that “deceit is part of the whole gig.”
JD quotes article
KMV describes the controversy of whether or not it is ok to conflate and “cut and paste” a discussion of class. She was describing a guy at a conference presenting a book he was writing.
JD explains how statistics are rhetorical.
KMV describes that the way the questions are written frame the way people answer. Answers can be skewed in any direction you want.
JD asks the question of whether or not this is ethical.
KMV answers that it is not ethical if people are consciously forming questions.
- discussion ensues about the ethicality of phrasing questions –
AH: “The best way to prove that there is mercury in the water is to put mercury in the water.”
- Somehow Hitler comes up in the discussion –
MC: “Was Hitler a demigod?”
- Discussion ensues –
KMV explains that the write up of the research has to be written for an audience. She then explains the difference between Elbow’s believing game and his doubting game.
- discussion ensues about historical doubting game –
MC tells story of Carnegie Mellon teacher who says that “people will do the right thing, you just got to give them enough time.”
KMV describes “Descartes Error” People don’t believe things that they don’t want to believe in. You cant convince someone something they don’t believe in.
JD describes the Stanford Prison Experience
- Discussion ensues –
FS: “Does anyone have anything more to say about BJB?”
No one answers
KMV: “Snack time!!!”
Amble brought snacks
Pause log @ 7:32
Also my black pen has run out of ink so I replace it with a blue one.
Reconvene at 7:53
KMV wants to check in and see how the observations are going.
Quickwrite: Class writes down what we have learned so far.
Stopped writing at 8:04. Then papers were handed up to KMV.
Begin describing observations.
FS: describes observing a class taught by a professor she admired. Some students were sleeping.
KMV asks how FS felt about the fact that some students were not paying attention to a teacher that you admired?
FS describes her experience more indepth.
MS went to a sixth grade classroom at her school with a technologically savvy teacher. They did a six minute read. Teacher had a smart board. MS explains IVE.
AH is looking at 2 classes: AP English and College Prep
- explains group interaction and the way the teacher handled it.
- Explains differences between classes and teaching styles.
- AP courses are more structured
- College prep course teacher/students got off topic
KO explains difference between one teachers teaching habits in two different classes.
KMV explains that who the writer is changes the way you read something that translates into teaching classes.
- discussion ensues about teacher choices and teacher methods –
- Discussion ensues about difference between AP and college prep courses –
NW explains his experiences
- discussion ensues about difference between MA and BA students –
FS describes the controversy between different students in an online conversation. She wants to yell “Watergate, Watergate.”
KO describes her experience observing a developmental writing class at Merced College. She describes a group of Hispanic students that were not involved.
MG interviewed a professor, but has not yet observed a class. Plans to observe a social research methods class and a virtual classroom.
KMV describes the difficulties in virtual classrooms and the advantages.
MC observed a poetry lesson in fifth grade. “I can see how the writing process moves from childhood on.”
FS described that few students sat next to each other in the classroom she observed.
KMV makes announcement about WC and possible jobs there.
KMV: “Any questions or concerns before we wrap up?”
KMV asks us how many of us plan on doing interviews. She will post a few guidelines for conducting interviews.
KMV reminds us that we can include interviews.
MC brings up the issue of tagging commentaries.
Class wraps up
Ends @ 9:00