Log 5/12/09

English 5870

Dr. DeVries

 

KD:            Purpose of presentations is to share observations.  Minimum 5 minutes, informal.  Not enough time to set up for Power Point, can upload on blog if using slides.  Overhead and/or handouts will work.  Refers to syllabus.  Write-ups/portfolio due 5/26.  Everyone brings snacks next week, portfolio doesn’t have to be hard copy.  Can scan copies.

 

James: Digital camera can work.

 

Amble:  We need to include notetaking and notemaking.

 

KD: Interpreting and synthesizing.

 

Amble:  How long?

 

KD:  I’m being nice to you in a sense by telling you there’s no limit. 

 

Faye: Refer to syllabus

 

Adam: Upload Power Point?

 

KD: There’s an icon.  I can show you after class.

 

Joel:  Reviews his log from last week,

 

KD: Discussion leaders are Keri and Joel

 

Adam: Discussion last week was too macro – students feel disempowered but writing can give them a voice – more macro.

 

K.D.: Teachers doing ethnography now have more of a voice as well.

 

Ned: Academic writing can disempower students – restrictive, doesn’t allow for voice.

 

James: Agrees, this is where the place of the comp teacher comes in.  Academic writers should be willing to use story and ideas.

 

Amble – students have a narrow view of what to write about, we need to widen it.

 

Adam – it can me multi-genre.

 

Tina – we’ve lost sight of story telling.

 

Faye – various discourse communities use different types of writing – it’s out business to tell students that not all rules are going to apply across the board.

 

KD – Academic writing is concisely valued in opposition to vivid writing or writing with a distinct voice.  Genres and skills are different across the curriculum.

 

Ned – Then what do we teach if the skills are different?

 

James- Academic essays, specific format, flexible.

 

Joel – Does the administration tell you what students need to learn?

 

KD – The RTD faculty is usually in agreement with the objectives – a lot of learning the writing process – whether a student needs to write an outline or can jump right in – first year comp being trial and error, teaching vocabulary needed to talk about writing.

 

MS – It depends on whether you have tenure!!

 

KD – Good point.

 

KD – There is not agreement about the level of students when they graduate.

 

James – Students need more writing classes.

 

Adam – At my school we have portfolios which reflect various genres

 

KD – Developmental Writing program does that and they are read by people other than the students’ instructors.  TA’s have to follow a certain syllabus and use certain textbooks.

 

Faye – Comments on Matt’s class in which various “game shows” were used as a part of revising  essays.

 

Joel – Some types of writing are fun.

 

M.S.  You have to establish with the students the audience and purpose.

 

James – Writing is always work.

 

Faye – Writing is talent.  It should come naturally, but sometimes you have to work.

 

MS – I giggle at the keyboard.

 

James – Writing is a craft.

 

KD – Writing can be a struggle if you don’t feel like doing it, drudgery.  Much different than if you’re inspired.

 

Adam: You feel smart.

 

MS:  Accomplished

 

KD:  You learn to make yourself do it.

 

Adam: Writing a screenplay is an example of something fun.

 

MS: Even that can become mundane.

 

Ned: If we can’t agree what good writing is, how can we teach it?

 

KD: Recalls fights between faculty over test scores.

 

Ned: Values interdisciplinary writing

 

Adam: Every department?

 

Joel: Brings up many people at San Francisco State failed the JEPT test which is required to graduate.

 

MS: People should take it early before they forget everything.

 

KD: People don’t write outside of class.

 

MS: Discussed Ned’s interdisciplinary writing views in Dr. Wittman’s class last night.  Many professors would be reluctant.  “I became a history professor, so I wouldn’t have to grade essays.”

 

K.D. Professors have invested in their discipline and want to spend there time on their subject matter.

 

Adam – prefers  Stoller, Pryer – memoir.  More personal and made him feel like he was reading a story.

 

MS.  Preferred Sunstein.  Poignant moments.

 

Faye: To what purpose [memoir]?  How does it have value?

 

James: It’s a literary technique.

 

Ned:  There can be an argument for blending genres – ethnography and scientific writing.

 

Keri – We’re going to split up in groups of 3 to whether memoir and can stand up to the scientific method of research.

 

After………

 

Faye:  Memoir can be useful

 

MS:  Memoir can be used in different situations.

 

Faye:  Has to answer the ‘so what?’

 

Keri:  Memoir is good and valid but can’t suit every purpose.  It’s one more tool in the toolbox of writing craft, especially with human research and where emotion is involved.  Gives the example of slave narratives which gives us a new level of understanding.

 

Joel:  Memoir has many pros and some cons.

 

Amble: We like it because because it gives us a wider audience, and prefer to write and read it because it’s more fun.

 

Adam: In certain contexts the scientific approach works.

 

Joel: Scientific approach is boring.

 

K.D. Purpose of piece

 

Adam: With memoir you have to watch to not embellish.

 

Faye: There’s too much arrogance.  It can’t be about the researcher…all about me.

 

James:  There’s no difference between fiction and enthnography. 

 

Keri: According to the writing guide, narrative writing compliments or can add to the story.

 

Joel quotes page 180-181.

 

KD: Last 20 minutes of class will be an informal evaluation.

 

Joel: Stoller talks about a humanistic approach.  Humanism is the central recipe for ethnography.

 

Adam: Brings up National Geographic television shows examining village life, narrated by person with British accent, as complete opposite of memoir.

 

KD: Would not argue that memoir or scientific is better.  It’s “both and” rather than “either or.”

 

Joel:  Participant observer doesn’t affect ethnography?

 

KD: You have a different experience.  You can learn something more or different by being active.

 

James: Your story becomes part of the story, rather than watching through a window.

 

Keri: Better realization if you look through your own experiences.

 

Joel: I’d want to participate.

 

Complete information assessment.

 

Last time we meet is next week.  Yipee!!