Alex I like your response on the Bain reading, I would like to elaborate on your ideas with some examples. Bain requires a specific structure to argument, which I feel is contradictory to many of the philosophers we have read. Plato and Socrates’ arguments are filled with syllogisms and ideas that have no linear structure.  For example, Ramus implies that Quintilian, Aristitle and Cicero, make claims that don’t make sense:

Ramus: “For the artist must be defined according to the rules of his art, so that only as much of the art as the true, proper principles cover – this much is attributed to the artist, and nothing further”.

Example:

The grammarian is defined as skilled in speaking and writing cor-rectly; he is not defined as skilled in speaking, writing, and “singing”.

Ramus also comments on the syllogisms used by many of the Greek philosophers “dialectic is a virtue, so therefore is rhetoric”. The Greek Philosophers make claims that do not fit the structure Bain implies in his writings.